Talk:Yggdrasill

Yggdrasill?

I've been skimming through the Digimon Chronicle site and found that Bandai uses the spelling "Yggdrasill", the same spelling is also found on the card Bx-33. --Ainz 11:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

DigiWindow

I thought that the v-pet sprite in the image gallery is from DigiWindow, but Digimonx changed its caption to Digimon Web. What does this page (bottom) exactly say about it? --Grandy02 03:06, 16 January 2012 (CST)

I'm not sure what it says, but here there is a page that states this:

"March 17th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Download from cell phone
This one needs some explanation. There's a Japan only cell phone game, that downloads additional Digimon which can then be sent to the Digiwindow. Here's the list...
Akatamadachimon
Argomon
Eldoradimon
SantaAgumon
ShineGreymon Burst Mode
Dukemon Crimson Mode/Gallantmon Crimson Mode
Duftmon
BushiAgumon/SamuraiAgumon (Again, prediction on the dub name)
Yo!yo!mon
Yggdramon (Yggdrasil's Digimon form)"

If it's certain, it can be added to the DigiWindow's page. Shadow Shinji (talk) 05:15, 3 October 2014 (CDT)

Server Tree

Do we know where this name came from?KrytenKoro06 (talk) 22:34, 2 October 2014 (CDT)

I can't find it anywhere. I thought it would have shown up in the lineart or Memorial book, but it's in neither. The only thing I can find that names the tree specifically is in the XW manga (Information/Data Tree I think)--Ainz ^{( talk | contribs )} 04:03, 3 October 2014 (CDT)

okeydoke, going with that then. Weird.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 21:09, 12 October 2014 (CDT)

kernel

does Digital Monster ART BOOK Ver. PENDULUM actually say that stuff about ygdrasil, or is it about God? theres also info on this page that seems to just refer to god and the background page includes info from chronicle and other stuff which would need to be moved. what page is this info from?Muur (talk) 21:27, 13 December 2022 (CST)

I've been talking to Convergencia Digital via Twitter. First and foremost, I tried to convey him my apologies as a member of the community because in all fairness, he hasn't been treated fairly regarding their recent additions. Indeed there are certain rules and guidelines that should be followed, but that's not an excuse in my personal opinion and manners should matter, especially considering how good and regular of an editor he is. Secondly, I kindly asked him all the different sources regarding their recent edits, and he was very proactive in sending all the info. This is what I could find out (hope this thread is the appropriate one to post this):

Summary of Digimon Chronicle Yggdrasil is treated as God herself.

Hyper Colosseum TCG "God is probably the System itself".

Xros Wars Manga "God's source of information...the Tree of Information from Yggdrasil".

Chronicle "God (Computer Host)".

Digimon.net Digimon Chronicle as part of the Digimon Encyclopedia from the original Digimon website.

Card Game Alpha Referring to Yggdrasill: "A merciless blow from the hand of God! The order of the digital world begins to move!!". the TCG is considered as null canon by some of the editors here.

Current Digimon Web treats the events from Chronicle and Chronicle X as the null canon when elaborating on the implications of the X-Antibody, and so do the recent X & Pendulum Artbooks.

DIGITAL MONSTER DIGIMON ART BOOK VER. PENDULUM Management of the Digital World (デジタルワールドの管理): A system that manages the entire Digital World including the File Island, "Yggdrasil". Originally it was a generic name (総 称) for the system that was operating on the supercomputer on which the "Net Ocean" (「ネットの海」) was found. It has a self-protection instinct to exclude bugs, it will work without making any judgment of right or wrong. > Ygdrasil as the System of the Digital World itself.

Digimon Visual Dictionary "Kernel - The central part of the Operating System. It is also a general term of the central part of the Digital World, and is protected by the Three Great Angel Digimon."

Chronicle "The space closest to Yggdrasill... the center of the world..."

DIGITAL MONSTER DIGIMON ART BOOK VER. PENDULUM The Digital World is the puck (text box on the right) and Yggdrasil is in the center of the Digital World (text box on the left). Plus it is designed to distribute data in a three-layered "Chronicle Layer System".

DIGITAL MONSTER DIGIMON ART BOOK VER. PENDULUM It is also shown the 3 light connections coming from the center of the DW (yggdrasill) towards the center of the 3 Terminals a la Chronicle.

Digimon Web The New Digital World is explicitly mentioned in the Profiles and in the "About" section

Digimon Next Manga "This is heaven, where the host computer Yggdrasill lives."

The backstory and main premise for the Booster 20, Booster 21, Booster 22, & Booster 23 TCG sets, are set exclusively in the Chronicle universe.

"Cool boy" has zero participation in the manga, and it has instead a promiment role in the TCG backstory, as seen here, here and Starter Ver. 9, Ultimate Battle Deck 5, & Starter Ver. 10 respective backstories, hence Chronicle belongs to the same canonicity as the TCG and the DRB.

If any of the links is broken, please let me know. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2022 (CST)

I've looked through it all, and have gone ahead and made some minor changes to the page. As far as the rest goes, there seem to be two main questions on which things depend. The first is whether or not any mention of God can automatically be assumed to refer to Yggdrasill, and the answer to this is pretty clearly no, since the term has been used to refer to several different entities in the series (Huanglongmon, for example). So unless there is evidence that the God being talked about is Yggdrasill and not something else, information about that God should go on God's page rather than Yggdrasill's. The second question is whether of not Chronicle is part of the null canon. Muur is under the impression that it wasn't, while I was under the impression that it was. So I wouldn't mind treating it as part of the null canon (since the card game images would seem to imply that it is), but I would like to hear what Muur and any other objectors have to say before I make a final decision. --TMS (talk) 16:15, 18 December 2022 (EST)

I think the point that Convergencia Digital wanted to prove is that in the context of the null canon, Yggdrasil is treated as a God (Chronicle X, Chronicle, Visual Dictionary, Digimon Web), although there are also other figures that are considered Gods as well in this original material, such as Huanglongmon or Lucemon, so personally, I think that as long as this information appears in the Ygdrasil section as one of the figures known as God, that should be enough.

No offense, but Muur has no idea how Digimon works, he tends to obsess over ideas that have no back up and stick with them no matter what. The null canon is nothing more than the original Digimon material, that is, the material created by Bandai/Wiz-Plex that is later adapted for the rest of the continuities (anime, manga, videogames, etc.). This includes the V-Pets, the TCG (at least Hyper Colosseum and presumably Card Game Alpha), the official DRB profiles, and products created directly by Bandai/Wiz-Plex, i.e. Digimon Chronicle. Otherwise, it would not be the digmonweb.net website itself that would release new chapters of Digimon Chronicle X, but a different account, nor would this material appear in any Artbook at all. In fact, Kenji Watanabe himself has said on more than one occasion that this original material or "null canon" does not fill in all the gaps, precisely so that the adaptations have material to create new stories based on that premise, which then it feeds back to the original as has happened many times (ie. Spirit Evolution from Digimon Frontier). What happens here is that there are adaptations that are very close to the original material (Battle Terminal, V-Tamer 01, Xros Wars Manga), and others that are further away and take their own licenses (like Adventure 1999, Tamers or Digimon Survive). All are canonical in their own continuity, but none belong to the null canon per se, except for products created directly by the company, such as Chronicle or Chronicle X. Other considerations apart from that are headcanons, such as those of the user Muur.

The other day he claimed one of the dumbest arguments I have ever read here. He said Chronicle couldn't be part of the null canon because that would imply that Kouta is present in every continuity. That is as dumb as saying that the Lucemon of the null canon cannot be part of the SGDL because not all the Lucemon that have appeared along the franchise are part of the group. The null canon is the original continuity, arguably the most important one for being the source of the rest, but not the only one and it doesn't necessary affect on how the other different adaptations unfold by their own rules.

Convergencia would like to add: "the point here is not to say that Yggdrasill is the only God, but that Yggdrasill is the God that the profiles refer to when talking about the God of the Kernel under which the Army of Angels work". Based on the evidence that he has provided, I honestly agree. The Angels don't work for Homeostasis or Huanglongmon, that's for sure.--Shadow Shinji (talk) 16:05, 18 December 2022 (CST)

The issue with that is that as far as I can tell (though correct me if I'm wrong) none of the evidence provided here about the Kernel, angels, etc., makes any mention of Yggdrasill. --TMS (talk) 17:46, 18 December 2022 (EST)

Since we seem to have come to an understanding regarding digimon chronicle and chronicle x, I'll feel free to use those as sources aswell. As you've seen, Yggdrasill is treated as "God of the digital world" many times even in the main canon/null canon, but it's also refered to as the Operating System of the world. Digimon Visual Dictionary stated that the Kernel is the central part of the Operatin System (in this case, Yggdrasill) and that it is protected by the Three Archangels (here we have our first conection). Digimo Chronicle also states that the core of the world (AKA the Kernel, god's domain) is the closest place to Yggdrasill, which is consistent with what was said before (second conection). And later on, in Digimon Chronicle X it is explicitly stated that the Kernel is Yggdrasill's domain, that Lucemon rebelled against Yggdrasill itself and that it was Yggdrasill who banished him from the Kernel and sealed him in the dark area (third conection)... so you can't be more direct then that. Yggdrasill is the system of the world, the kernel is the core of Yggdrasill's system and is protected by the three archangels, who where created by God (now we know that it referes to the System Yggdrasill). Later on, Lucemon reveled against God (Yggdrasill) and it was sealed alongside other Demon Digimon in the Dark Area by the System itself (Demon's profile wonders if the God that sealed them was the human that created the Digital World, but that was not correct, Chronicle X and other media confirmed that the one who sealed them was the System). So yes, Yggdrasill is the God that inhabits the Kernel and the one who rules over the angelic digimon and the digital world.

• Digimon Visual Dictionary "Kernel - The central part of the Operating System. It is also a general term of the central part of the Digital World, and is protected by the Three Great Angel Digimon."
• Chronicle "The space closest to Yggdrasill... the center of the world..."
• Novel of X "Back when I was still allowed in “God’s territory”, the Kernel, I’d once provided some advice for Yggdrasil, who was concerned for the future of the Digital World. In order to stop the fighting, I suggested erasing every Digimon’s fighting instincts from their DigiCore. It would be simple for Yggdrasil, the god who managed the world’s systems, to do such a thing — but it would not accept my proposal. That was why I proclaimed Digimon fighting instincts to be a “curse” and, in the hopes of liberating us all from it, raised up a rebellion against Yggdrasil. Of course, this only ended up in my disgraceful defeat. Afterwards, since deletion alone would be too weak of a punishment for my sins, they banished me from the Kernel. I fell all the way down into the lowest layer, the Cocytus, of the Dark Area, and became a Demon Lord."
• Hyper Colosseum TCG "God is probably the System itself. [...] In preparation for the oncoming battle against the fallen angel Digimon, God gave each of the three apostles a unique aspect of himself and made them lead the "Army of the Gods". [...] But why did the conflict between structure of "good" and "evil" arise in the Digimon world? To get the answer, we will have to wait and see what will be said about the "perfect child" born of the "Digimon God" - a supreme angel who was born with 12 wings."
• Ofanimon "It is one of the Three Archangel Digimon who protect the Digital World's core "Kernel" (God's domain), alongside Seraphimon and Cherubimon."
• Lucemon: Falldown Mode "It instigated a rebellion in the far-flung past, and so it was sealed in the Dark Area along with many other Demon Lord Digimon."
• Demon "because it raged in fury or rebellion, against a being of goodness in the Digital World, it was deleted to the Dark Area"
• Battle Terminal "These are the Seven Great Demons Lords, formerly high-ranked Angel Digimon, who by committing sins were deleted by the Digital World System into the Dark Area becoming Demon Lords. They now exists and are related to the seven deadly sins expressed by people's desires."

--Convergencia Digital (talk) 19:00, 18 December 2022 (CST)

first one is chronicle so applies to chronicle. second one says "probably". probably isnt confirmation, its probably. third is xw, so applies to xw. 4th is chronicle. the 5th; i mean the site also has sections for video games and real life card game tournies. 6th, we know yggdrasil is a god - but taht doesnt he is the god. and with things such as daemon's profile talking about god being a human and other things having other gods we cant just assume everything to have ever used the word god to mean yggdrasil. kryten said on discord something fair, to just have vauge usage of god refer to...god. rather than deciding the stuff in shamanmon's profile = yggdrasil because it says god. if it was yggdrasil itd say him. your supposed current digimon site cliams chronile is null canon says nothing of the sort. your picture just says 90 x digimon exist and the virus was made to sort out ot overpopulation problem. more than chronicle has used this lore. the management just says what yggdrasl does, not that its god. visual dictionary just says what the kernel is and that the angels live there. nothing to do with yggy. chronicle applies to chroncile. the art book quotes add nothing relevant. as for chronicle being null canon, it doesnt really make sense. by being so, it would mean that every single universe and timeline kota and yuji did the thing and that every single universe the royal knights of chroincle are teh same characters as the royal knights of each series. i.e. the alphamon of cyber sleuth would be the same character as the alphamon as chronicle due to chronicle now being seen as null canon. it is its own timeline/universe - null canon is things to applies to everything. that would mean in every single universe alphamon is partnered to kota when that obviously isnt the case. kyoko/alphamon never said he had a partner in the past. the parts of there being too many digimon so he will fire off a virus to kill almost everything is null canon, but that is stuff used in more than just chronicle. it is simply telling a story using the null canon information just like cyber sleuth or adventure or tamers or new century etc. by it somehow being null canon it would mean kota and yuji exist in every single timeline and that they were partnered to ryudamon and alphamon in every single timeline. so the kyoko/alphamon in cyber sleuth is partnered to kota because null canon etc. also, ReSP-1 rina was in the original card game too. generally when people say card game = null canon means if the little lore stuff written on it says agumon has very sharp claws. Muur (talk) 20:47, 18 December 2022 (CST)

What exactly is the Digimon Visual Dictionary? A book, or a website? That tiny image doesn't give much context.

EDIT: Apparently it's a book. Sort of a physical DRB, I gather. The question then becomes whether it's to be treated as null/main canon. Does anyone here own it? This entire debate essentially boils down to what the limits of the null canon are, and that's kind of a problem, because everyone's interpretations seem to differ. I think it will ultimately come down to an executive decision by the staff as to what counts and what doesn't. I'll discuss it with them and report the results here. --TMS (talk) 22:11, 18 December 2022 (EST)

Visual Dictionary <- here it is, leave a comment and you can download it (it's the blog from the Mexican user who bought and scanned many of these books for the community not too long ago). I'm actually quite surprised you didn't know about it and haven't asked about what it is up until now. Before the DRB/Digimon Encyclopedia became a thing online, Bandai realesed many books that served the same purpose but physically, since many of the old digimon media came in physical format only and the oficial webpage was still in it's infancy. It's from these books (visual dictionary, digital monster encyclopedia, illustration artbooks, etc.) that almost all of the information gathered on the new Digimon Profile come from, so yes, it is null canon. In fact, much of the information found in the new Digimon Profile page is straight up copied and pasted directly from these books.--Convergencia Digital (talk) 13:54, 19 December 2022 (CST)

Muur, I don't even know what to tell you anymore buddy, cause it seems like I have more reading comprehension then you and this isn't even my first lenguage. From what it seems, you are the only person here that still believes that Digimon Chronicle and Chronicle X aren't null canon, you use Demon's profile as proof that God is a human even tho the profile itselfs only wonders if the human creator may or may not be a god, it never confirms that it is, only that this person exsists, and in general you seem to have a very different approach to understanding the franchise from anyone I've ever met. I've never intended to classify Yggdrasill as THE only God in existence, in fact, it was me who eddited the God page for it to include all beings that have been traited as "God" in the past, a change that it seems you agreed on since it's still up. My intent is not to link every single mention of "God" in the null canon to Yggdrasill, but to link only those that have been confirmed. From Digimon Chronicle, Chronicle X, Advent of the Three Archangels, Visual Dictionary, Artbook Pendulum, Battle Terminal and Hyper Colosseum, we know that Yggdrasill is the God that is refered to when talking about the being that lives in the Kernel and to wich the Angels respond. Other mentions of God such as Sakutamon's profile or Shamamon have not been confirmed to link to Yggdrasill, and thus, these should remain intact.

You also don't seem to understend pretty well how the card game worked. The card game was divided into main "sets": the Starter Decks, the Booster Series, the Premium Series and Promotional Series (you can check the Hyper Colosseum page if you'd like). Here in this wiki and in most parts of the fandom, it is generally agreed that everything that was used in the Starter Decks and the Booster Series constitute as "nulll canon", as those sets where made and written by the same people in charge of the DRB (WiZ), but the Premium Series and Promotional Series were special kind of sets that usually used characters from other media, such as games, anime or movies, and those ones are ignored as part of the null canon for obvious reasons... it's just promotional material as the name implies, and all of the Digimon Chronicle cards appeared as part of the Starter Decks and Booster Series, none of these cards and sets ever showed up as Premium Series or Promotional Series, these where not promotional material, these were part of the main set of cards from the card game alongside all of the other cards used for the null canon. That's why we don't use the Rina card that you showed but we do use the card that shows Kouta, because Rina's card is a Promotional Series while Kouta's is from the standar Booster Series. --Convergencia Digital (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2022 (CST)

im not the only person who thinks that, as seen in the discord for wikimon where other people said they dont think chronicle is null canon either. anyway don't throw around personal insults - no one had done so to you even with you getting mad and shinji apparently deciding the disagreements need apologies and there's no need to make things personal. wikis have disagreements, its part of being an editor. i simply just dont think kota and yuji's plot being canon to every single timeline/universe makes sense, and im not the only editor on here that has said that. maybe you guys should be in the discord since most things are determined there these days, some users dont even really edit here and just use discord instead. anyway the part of the card game is just being selective, just like being selective by saying certain drb profiles dont count. in regards to the comment on english, i mean, your edits had multiple spelling and grammer errors and also sometimes had random spanish spliced in.Muur (talk) 23:42, 19 December 2022 (CST)

I didn't even know there was a discord, would have been good to know so we could interact faster. Also, the closest thing to a insult I said was that you didn't seem to have good reading comprehension, which by the looks of it you interpreted that as "you don't have good grammar"... which only proves my point... . Anyway, regarding Kouta and Yuji, them being part of the null canon doesn't make them canon in every universe... that's not how it works. Yggdrasill is part of the null canon and doesn't exist in every universe, the same goes for Huanglongmon, the Royal Knights, the 7 Great Demon Lords, and pretty much every single character. The point of the null canon is for it to serve as a guideline for other products. Directors and writers can look at the information provided to them thru the null canon and decide which aspect to take and which ones to ignore in order to creat their own stories, they are not oblidge to take everything and that's why in almost all media in the franchise not every single plot point and character from the null canon is used. Just think as to how many products have actually used the X-Antibody and New Digital World setting... almos none, and it is part of the null canon. Kouta an Yuji being part of this main canon doesn't imply that they will exist in every universe, it only implies that they *could* exist in other universes if the director/writer decided to use them in any way. Kenji Watanabe has explained this before in an interview that I already showed to you, but here it is again just in case:

• Kenji Watanabe interviewed by producer Habu

Watanabe: On the contrary, I and the other folks and WiZ don't really have the avenue to do something like that. We don't really have a platform for us to express a certain world-view, so we have no choice but to rely on the games and anime series for that. While we can say "this is the world we want to portray, so please stick to the established setting", it's hard to actually stick to it. We can't put a lot of information into LCD games, so it is hard for [LCD games] to step out of the 'toy' territory to become an actual media platform.

Habu: However, because of how little information can be included [in the LCD toys], it leaves a lot of room for ambiguity, so wouldn't you think that [the world portrayed in LCD toys] also expands according to the consumers' imagination?

Watanabe: That's our intention. We set the base for the characters, and establish the relationships between them. There have been [characters] that were more neglected, but there's always the possibility that they might be picked up one day.

Here Watanabe explains how WiZ works on the main setting that they envisioned for the franchise. They create characters and plot points, but since they have limited ways to express this information, they just lay the groundwork so others can take this setting and expand on it however they please. He even includes the v-pet world as part of this main setting that they created (chronicle is a part of this world). --Convergencia Digital (talk) 10:15, 20 December 2022 (CST)

Okay, we've come up with a solution which, while it probably won't satisfy anyone involved in this argument, is difficult to take issue with. Essentially, we're not going to use the concept of "null canon." Everything should go into a section of the page dedicated to its source medium, including books and Bandai websites. At the moment, I don't have time to edit the page to provide an example (I'm getting ready for a nine-hour shift at work), but I'll try and get to it as soon as time permits. I'd like to handle it myself, so please hold off on further edits until I do. Convergencia Digital, thank you for the link to the Visual Dictionary, and for the time you've put into Wikimon. I know that this isn't the outcome you wanted, but your presence on YouTube and other social media will continue to allow you to work to try and tie everything together. As we've seen, it just leads to arguments on Wikimon. --TMS (talk) 13:43, 21 December 2022 (EST)

Completely disagree. Are you going to ignore a part of the Digimon setting (arguably the most important one) just because of a personal headcanon? That doesn't sound like a serious wiki. Most of those issues come from the fact that some people involved in this discussion doesn't know how Digimon works (or just decide to ignore it). Again, one of the worst decisions I have seen during my time as a Wikimon editor, and honestly, such important thing shouldn't just rely on your own opion.--Shadow Shinji (talk) 18:23, 21 December 2022 (CST)

I think a “serious wiki” should be honest about where its information comes from, rather than follow tenuous head-canons. But since you consider yourself the only person who can correctly interpret the Digimon franchise, Shinji, feel free to create your own wiki and stop stirring up trouble on this one. —-TMS (talk) 19:56, 21 December 2022 (EST)

i didnt say you insulted shinji, i said you insulted me. if anything, shinji/you teamed up from twitter. anyway at the least reference book stuff should be used even if only that. you guys do use the drb as the main thing such as the suggestion to bold drb stuff in the infobox.Muur (talk) 21:38, 21 December 2022 (CST)

No, I am not talking about my opinion, I am talking about how Digimon works and has always worked. I think you should be more objective if it comes down to talking such important decisions for the wiki such as ignoring the null canon. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 02:19, 22 December 2022 (CST)