User talk:Luph

Translations

That phrasing is a direct reference to Quo Vadis, and is used to illustrate how the Japanese description of the attack is actually trying to reference Quo Vadis. Translating it in Simple English loses that entirely, removing a ton of meaning from the passage. Translation needs to be respectful of both the intended meaning/cultural context and the plain wording.

"Dance of Hell" better fits the fact that it is being directly compared with the actual name of the attack, Hell Masquerade. As with "Terrible Bee", it is giving a synonym, not just a description, for the name. Having "Hell Dance" immediately before "Hell Masquerade" is repetitious, and makes it less clear which is actually the official name for the attack and which is plainly being used as purple prose. (FWIW, "Hell's Dance" would make more sense than Hell Dance, to make it clear it is being used as a possessive there.) Furthermore Dance of Hell is a more natural formulation than Hell Dance anyway. Not all instances of "Y of X" are unnatural. Infernal Dance may be another option, to impress upon the synonym without being repetitious.

"Terrible Bee" is in the profile straight up in the style of translating a dinosaur's name. It's not a nickname. It's the meta-translation of the name. That's why the profile straight up uses the word for "name", not "nickname". It's like saying someone named Gustafson has the "nickname" of "Gustav's Son". That's not what is being done there.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 17:31, 9 January 2017 (CST)

I'll give you that on "Dance of Hell" and "Terrible Bee" since those are mainly nitpicking, but I don't agree on Quo Vadis since first of all, it's a really famous Biblical phrase, and you could have just added a footnote / note to give context for those who don't know about the phrase. Second, the way the description of Quo Vadis in Japanese doesn't sound like old Japanese, not in the way archaic English sounds like to English speakers. The translation took too much liberty as it added something not present in the Japanese text.

Here's the 'Quo vadis' passage in standard Japanese (New Japanese Bible version):

シモン・ペテロがイエスに言った、「主よ、どこへおいでになるのですか」。イエスは答えられた、「あなたはわたしの行くところに、今はついて来ることはできない。しかし、あとになってから、ついて来ることになろう」。

Here's the 'Quo vadis' passage in old Japanese (Taisho Revised Version - equivalent to KJV Bible English):

シモン・ペテロ 言ふ『 主よ、 何處にゆき 給ふか』イエス 答へ 給ふ『わが往く處に、なんぢ今は從ふこと能はず。されど後に從はん』

You can see that the old Japanese has antiquated grammar and word choice, which is not reflected in the profile.

Sorry for interrupting a convo, just wanted to agree with Luph since I was recently looking at and wondering about Crimson Mode's profile (though mine is more on the grounds of it's awfully unnatural for the reader to switch styles like that, especially when the original doesn't do so). Even if the 'old' English phrasing ends up being kept I think that using 2nd person sounds really out of place in that context, and I don't like the idea of using 2nd person in 'formal' writing like Digimon profiles myself. --Garmmon (talk) 12:51, 20 September 2017 (CDT)

Long delayed followup, but to clarify -- I was not claiming above that the Japanese grammar itself uses an archaic form -- instead, I'm saying that the actions described are a reference to the Biblical episode referenced in the name "Quo Vadis". I agree that archaic grammar is not being used in Japanese, but the passage itself is meant to remind the reader of the episode, and that's what my translation was aiming to do, as I felt a simple English phrasing would not accomplish that. I also disagree that footnotes are preferable, as a general rule.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 09:51, 8 November 2024 (CST)

高貴な存在の女性型堕天使

I'm reading that as ((feminine 女性型 (fallen angel 堕天使)) of の (noble 高貴な (presence/stature 存在))); localizations translate "of noble stature" as "with a haughty personality", which gets at the same point. I agree that "female" is imprecise here -- I think using "feminine" would feel more natural in English, though, and get your same point across. "stature", from comparisons, also seems to have a bit of a positive connotation, so it makes sense to switch that with "presence", which is more uniformly used to indicate merely one's bearing and presentation.

Would you agree with changing this to "feminine fallen angel of noble presence" for the best natural sound in English?KrytenKoro06 (talk) 11:21, 1 August 2017 (CDT)

Sorry for the super late response. I rarely logged into my account, and put this into my backburner. Anyway, while it might sound "more natural", it is possible to create misunderstanding since when people heard the word "feminine", what came first to people's mind (or at least mine) was of personality or behavior rather than physical characteristics, especially on sentient beings like Digimon.

For example, 女性型ロボット can be translated as "female robot" or "feminine robot", and it is understood from the context that it is referring to the shape of the robot. The Japanese specifically referred the physical form of it. therefore I opted for "female-shaped" which avoids ambiguity and it doesn't sound too awkward in English, at least to me. Alternatively, reword it to " in the shape of a female" which might be wordy, but sounds more natural and convey the intended meanig properly.

A recent example would be Yuujin from Appmon. If I said, "masculine Yuujin", then most people probably will think that I was referring to his personality / behavior and not his male-shaped figure as an android.

Google keyword search to tell the difference:

- 女性天使 (female/feminine angel)

- 女性型天使 (female-shaped angel)

The top result of the former would give you generic female angels, while the latter would give you Digimon results, suggesting that 女性型 is uncommon to refer to angels. That's because angels don't have physical body, and the 型 is specifically referring to the shape/model/pattern. Examples where 女性型 is specifically used:

- female robots / female android (女性型ロボット / 女性型アンドロイド)

- female pattern alopecia/hair loss (女性型脱毛症)

- gynecomastia / man boobs (女性型乳房)

- female monster, as in monster with female shape (女性型モンスター)

All of these describe something physical and less of that of personality or internal quality (feminity). Yes, "feminine" can be used to refer to the physical body, but it most likely won't be read as such by many when they read the phrase "feminine angel". It's the reason why I used "female-shaped" on Ofanimon's page as well. Luph (talk) 11:09, 20 September 2017 (CDT)

I don't know if you're still active to respond. I apologize for not keeping track of these various talk page conversations.

Regarding your example of female robots, I think that's the most applicable here (a female-presenting but physically neuter entity), and actually supports what I'm suggesting -- a look at gynoid shows they use the phrase "A gynoid, or fembot, is a feminine humanoid robot." While feminine can apply to personality (and to be fair, that personality is generally attached to such Digimon in practice), it can also apply to appearance.

Of the examples given, the options appear to be:

• Feminine
• Female-presenting
• Female-pattern
• Gynic
• Female

I would argue that "Female", while it's meaning is harmless enough with organic characters like monsters, is the most likely to give a false impression of an actual biological feature on Digimon.

"Gynic" would perhaps be the most accurate, but it's a fairly obscure word that I think would confuse most readers.

"Female-pattern" feels unnatural to me except when used regarding individual medical conditions.

"Female-presenting" would be a precise and natural translation, if the wiki wants to use it.

"Feminine" does have the possibility of being interpreted as applying to personality, but I would argue that it's not exactly incorrect for a reader to take that impression, given the history of such characters, but also that the possible misinterpretation would be pretty easily cleared up by looking at the character's image to the right of the profile.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 10:18, 8 November 2024 (CST)

Next Order

Hello. If you are going to add any character that appears in both Next Order and International Edition into its page, please use this formula Digimon World -next 0rder-/International Edition same as in Shinomiya Rina's page in as much as possible. Thanks for your understanding. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 17:33, 14 December 2017 (CST)

Well, I personally find that doesn't look good since the words are too close to each other. Some spaces in between look nicer. Luph (talk) 18:25, 14 December 2017 (CST)

Also, Digimon's title tends to have unique or unconventional stylization, especially as of recent. I won't be surprised if future games or anime might have "/" as part of its title. So I prefer listing the full title to avoid confusion. Luph (talk) 18:33, 14 December 2017 (CST)