Talk:Kemonogami
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This should be a subsection of the Digimon article imho. Herb (talk) 10:21, 14 August 2022 (CDT)
- I would agree, or at least this article being mentioned in the main one Digimon (species), but maybe some people don't, since unless there is an official and unmistakable statement that Kemonogami and Digimon are quintessential two ways to designate the same type of creature, some editors or fans in general will probably be against any kind of fan assumption or interpretation.
- In theory, Digimon in the universe of Survive don't follow the general pattern or original concept of Digimon of "residing within the Digital World, and being originated from the Net Ocean" for being instead 'creatures that have existed from ancient times'. The other one great definition, the original one related to the first V-Pets, consisting of 'distinctive entities that self-evolve, and are seen as AI programs in the Digital World created by humans' is more widely spread and by definition should include Appmon as well, so it's a very tricky subject I would argue. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 18:05, 14 August 2022 (CDT)
- See, I do not agree with the second definition and especially not the inclusion of Appmon since this definition has been long discarded by media at this point. The very idea of Appmon=Digimon is completely contradictory to actual Appmon media.
When motherfucking Tamers is like 'No, humans did not create Digimon; that was complete fiction', it’s time to bury that definition altogether. Chimera-gui (talk) 19:51, 14 August 2022 (CDT)- About the Appmon inclusion, I meant that the second great meaning of Digimon may include them by definition, not that they are interchangeable concepts, so my point is that the boundaries feel a little bit over the place. Sorry I have difficulties to understand what are you trying to say about Tamers in your second sentence, do you mind elaborate it? As far as I recall, in Tamers Digimon are digital AI that indeed were created by humans at some point in the past. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 01:55, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
- kemonogami is just a fancy word for yokai. before human computers turned the yokai into digimon they werent digimon. survive takes place before digimon even existed. kemonogami arent digital, and therefore they arent digimon. digimon didnt get created in 1997, they existed before that as yokai or rather, kemonogami. even in the first vpet with the virus stuff thats just what they became after human computers corrupted them. before that they were kemonogami. and no, the only media that claimed humans made digimon was tamers and last year konaka said the origin of digimon in tamers was faked and they actually were spirits that turned into digital creatures and they were not man made. a similar situation would be if one day appmon get turned into digimon... gatchmon the appmon would be consdered a different creature than gatchmon the digimon. its like... oyaji was a tamagotchi monster. a human computer turned him into a digimon called nanimon. wizardmon was a magical witch. a computer turned him into wizardmon. in 1997, computers turned kemonogami into digimon. theyre not the same life form, just the kemonogami became digimon as a result of human computers. konaka explains it here for tamers https://tamers2021.hateblo.jp/entry/2021/07/20/103145 with a translation here https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/731125399177920572/1008833940666196108/image0.png as such we have no media that give digimon the backstory of being human made. even the drb only says they were found in computers in 1997. ...they existed before that, as kemonogami. also the part about "and being originated from the Net Ocean", thats appmon not digimon. also erika/nene were humans that turned into digimon, but that doesnt mean they were digimon before they were digimon. they were humansMuur (talk) 15:39, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
- The digital human-made origin of Digimon doesn't tie with the Kemonogami existance or the overall concept of Digimon being some sort of living spirits, it's just a different setting started by the time Digimon Adventure started airing, being two different ways to explain the origin of Digimon which are perfectly valid depending on the continuity you are in.
- kemonogami is just a fancy word for yokai. before human computers turned the yokai into digimon they werent digimon. survive takes place before digimon even existed. kemonogami arent digital, and therefore they arent digimon. digimon didnt get created in 1997, they existed before that as yokai or rather, kemonogami. even in the first vpet with the virus stuff thats just what they became after human computers corrupted them. before that they were kemonogami. and no, the only media that claimed humans made digimon was tamers and last year konaka said the origin of digimon in tamers was faked and they actually were spirits that turned into digital creatures and they were not man made. a similar situation would be if one day appmon get turned into digimon... gatchmon the appmon would be consdered a different creature than gatchmon the digimon. its like... oyaji was a tamagotchi monster. a human computer turned him into a digimon called nanimon. wizardmon was a magical witch. a computer turned him into wizardmon. in 1997, computers turned kemonogami into digimon. theyre not the same life form, just the kemonogami became digimon as a result of human computers. konaka explains it here for tamers https://tamers2021.hateblo.jp/entry/2021/07/20/103145 with a translation here https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/731125399177920572/1008833940666196108/image0.png as such we have no media that give digimon the backstory of being human made. even the drb only says they were found in computers in 1997. ...they existed before that, as kemonogami. also the part about "and being originated from the Net Ocean", thats appmon not digimon. also erika/nene were humans that turned into digimon, but that doesnt mean they were digimon before they were digimon. they were humansMuur (talk) 15:39, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
- About the Appmon inclusion, I meant that the second great meaning of Digimon may include them by definition, not that they are interchangeable concepts, so my point is that the boundaries feel a little bit over the place. Sorry I have difficulties to understand what are you trying to say about Tamers in your second sentence, do you mind elaborate it? As far as I recall, in Tamers Digimon are digital AI that indeed were created by humans at some point in the past. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 01:55, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
- See, I do not agree with the second definition and especially not the inclusion of Appmon since this definition has been long discarded by media at this point. The very idea of Appmon=Digimon is completely contradictory to actual Appmon media.
- Kemonogami aside, I would also like to build up on the fact that not only Appmon were originated in the Net Ocean (on the surface web precisely), but also Digimon in the original setting of the franchise (in deeper layers allegedly), as hinted in several official profiles (see Coelamon). Funnily enough, the Net Ocean from the Appmon universe is more akin to the OG Net Ocean than the one seen in Digimon Adventure 1999 or V-Tamer 01. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 17:17, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
- ah yes, coleamon being found in the net ocean magically means all digimon were too. just like how plesiomon was found in a guys pc, so that means all digimon were found in that guys pc. anyway adventure lore basically took over everything else. there's nothing that goes against it, even your hacker vpet thing. they were just kemonos before hackers found then in 1997. also how did meramon survive if he lived in the oceanMuur (talk) 17:35, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
- Kemonogami aside, I would also like to build up on the fact that not only Appmon were originated in the Net Ocean (on the surface web precisely), but also Digimon in the original setting of the franchise (in deeper layers allegedly), as hinted in several official profiles (see Coelamon). Funnily enough, the Net Ocean from the Appmon universe is more akin to the OG Net Ocean than the one seen in Digimon Adventure 1999 or V-Tamer 01. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 17:17, 15 August 2022 (CDT)
