Talk:Negamon

Neger
I mean it probably *is* Negermon. here is the japanese wikipedia page for the aircraft and Negamon *does* look like it could be based on this and if negermon *is* an aircraft that even makes sense since the eyeball monster is probably hiding inside it. it just also happens the term is also a slur (many years after the aircraft was used) which would be unfortunate naming choice which would also be censored in english I assume. the aircraft and the digimon both use ネガー. nega is just ネガ on its own like eggman nega (ドクター・エッグマン・ネガ).Muur (talk) 11:37, 19 August 2021 (CDT)

Kuzuru
pretty sure this is kuzuru with negamon in vjump just referring to the eyeball and having the whale unlabelled. we'll see I guess, but we know three forms (eyeball, whale, and tenatcle monster), and have three names. (negamon, kuzurumon, and abadonmon)Muur (talk) 21:57, 11 September 2021 (CDT)
 * The close-proximity of the big bolded name with the "whale" suggests that the name applies to it. Otherwise, it would be a very misleading magazine layout. In contrast to the third form, the first two forms also share some specific key similarities (the blue skin or the red-LED "suction cups") that I can see them being mode-changes, or same-name evolutions at least. Most importantly, the episode TV summaries only mention Abaddomon in the 67th episode, not the upcoming 66th episode.--YongYoKyo (talk) 01:28, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * Not necessarily if we are to assume that the magazine was referring to Negamon as a character as opposed to the whale as a species to avoid spoiling all forms.


 * Bare in mind that the whale did not in this episode at all but is confirmed to appear in the next one; pretty much all but confirming that the whale is in fact meant to be Kuzurumon while the sphere is shown to have a humanoid figure inside it, a characteristic that is ascribed to specifically Abaddomon.


 * As for why Abaddomon is appearing in 66, remember that we've had villain Digimon Digivolve at the very end of episodes before so this is likely yet another example. Chimera-gui (talk) 02:38, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * It's not necessarily a confirmation if they don't consider the second form to be an "evolution" in the first place, as they did with Eyesmon.
 * I also considered that last possibility, but that would mean they showed the ending climax of the episode in the middle of the teaser. Assuming the teaser is in chronological order (though it doesn't have to be), the teaser would be mostly the end of the episode, which doesn't make much sense.--YongYoKyo (talk) 03:20, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * It also doesn't make much sense for Negamon to have both an extra form before Kazurumon and a mystery form after the sphere to represent Abaddomon when, based on the Digivice v-pet, the sphere is itself supposed to be the final boss meaning the sphere can only logically be Abaddomon and thus what we're assuming to be an extra form of Negamon must logically be in fact Kazurumon. Chimera-gui (talk) 04:15, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * An extra form makes sense if the initial form is a non-combat role. Otherwise, the big bad wouldn't even have a single fight-scene under its original name. We already know for a fact that the Digivice: is not all-encompassing. The first form is absent, and the humanoid Core (which is evidently the true finale form) is also absent. Logically, with two precedent cases, a third case wouldn't be unusual. It could be that Bandai simply didn't want to spoil the finale, as evident from how they hid their names with ??? in the Digivice:.--YongYoKyo (talk) 04:25, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * You do realize that the initial form is a literal Baby, right? Of course its role is going to be non-combat. Also, the Digivice has been right about every major enemy (Algomon, Eyesmon, Devimon, DarkKnightmon and Millenniummon) and most of the minor ones, why would it be wrong about the final boss?


 * I'd also be very careful about taking the descriptions we have as gospel since not only have we already gotten contradictions (65 described there being two Algomon Ultimate, not a single one and Omegamon appears in 66 despite only being mentioned in 67) but only Kuzurumon is stated to explicitly appear in the episode its name is mentioned in the description of whereas the description of 67 only says that Abaddomon and Omegamon will have a major role it, not that it's going to be their actual debut (and obviously can't be for the latter). Chimera-gui (talk) 05:37, 12 September 2021 (CDT)


 * Exactly my point, if the initial form is non-combat, then an extra combat form makes sense. It wouldn't make sense to build up Negamon's name, only to not actually fight it under that name even for a short while. I'm also not saying the Digivice: is lying; I'm saying that they excluded the very finale, which is already true if you consider the Core form. Another precedent is that the original 1999 Digivice only went up to Piemon, not Apocalymon.
 * I'm not solely relying on the description alone. It's the combination of all of the aforementioned factors, not a single isolated factor. The teaser implies that third form occurs relatively early in the episode. The description says that the Kuzurumon evolution occurs early in the episode. The magazine implies that the second form is referred to as Negamon.--YongYoKyo (talk) 10:51, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * only 67 mentions omegamon and yet we know hes in episode 66. what makes it so that abadomon isnt in episode 66 too?Muur (talk) 14:44, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * There is one major distinction you're ignoring. Omegamon isn't debuting in neither 66 nor 67. He debuted over 60 episodes ago, and this also isn't even his second appearance but like his fourth. There's no reason to make his evolution a big deal anymore.--YongYoKyo (talk) 15:14, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * It wouldn't make sense to build up Negamon's name, only to not actually fight it under that name even for a short while Hello, my name is Bagramon. I'm just gonna sit on my ass for nearly all of Xros Wars before I get absorbed by my baby brother so I can overwhelm him from within, oh I'm supposed to fight the protagonists? Good thing I have can use the fused body of my brother and I to fight them and then become a good guy giving my right arm to another protagonist to fight the thing born from my plan to remake reality.


 * I'd also note the franchise has been moving away for the giant flea from nowhere final boss since 02 since both Lucemon and Yggdrasil were name dropped early in their series despite not being the immediate threat at the time of being name dropped. You also seem to be ignoring that 65 claiming that two Algomon Ultimate were supposed to appear when in the actual episode, Algomon was present as a single being. Chimera-gui (talk) 18:30, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * Darkness Bagramon is a DigiXros that still bears Bagramon's name. Xros Wars has long established Xroses as the equivalent of combat-specific forms (especially as the official profiles of many Xroses, particularly Shoutmon's, describe them as modes specialized for different types of battle). Season 3 Bagramon is also completely irrelevant since he no longer holds the "final boss" role, or rather any antagonistic role.
 * Another thing, what relevance does that franchise trend even has? Abaddomon is an evolution of Negamon. Even if he debuts in 67 instead of 66, it wouldn't be a "giant flea from nowhere" since it's not a separate entity. Yes, Lucemon was name-dropped early (and even shows up as early as the first opening), but both Satan Mode and Larva were only revealed in the anime in the second-to-last episode, with Falldown Mode introduced 2 episodes before that. You're holding double-standards, then using that difference in standards to justify itself.
 * The description for 65 had a mistake, but that wasn't the mistake. The events described were correct. There were two different fronts for Algomon. One attacked the children, while the other obstructed the Digimon partners left at the Tree of Information from regrouping with the children; just as described in the description. The mistake here was that they described both Algomon as Ultimate-level, but only one of them was while the other "one" was a group of Adult-level Algomon.--YongYoKyo (talk) 19:47, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * now that its in the DRB, the three eosmon are labelled as eosmon lv3/4/5 so unless they call the whale negamon nega mode its not negamon. at the least we have no reason to use "negamon baby" since if the whale *is* negamon, its probably negamon nega mode or something similar.Muur (talk) 22:32, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * Also Yong, your complaint about the Negamon being built up as a character despite never being fought under that name doesn't work because Bagramon had been built up too only to never be fought in his default form.


 * And the funny thing about Lucemon though, all three of his main forms (not counting larva) appeared in D-Scanner 3.0 which was released well before his proper anime debut. There were no surprise additional forms after Satan Mode like what you're predicting.


 * You are assuming that Abaddomon is going to be a new design rather than the sphere when nothing has indicated this at all and in fact this has effectively all but debunked this with the humanoid inside the sphere mon. The fact that the DRB doesn't label Negamon as "Baby" should indicate that this isn't Negamon. Chimera-gui (talk) 23:13, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * There's the double-standards again. It works exactly because Negamon and Bagramon would both possess an initial non-combat form.
 * Lucemon Larva wasn't in the D-Scanner, which is indeed a surprise form (quite literally, as it ambushes Susanoomon).
 * The URL label doesn't necessarily prove anything. Algomon Perfect and Arkadimon Child don't have any additional labels in their URLs. In fact, including Lucemon Child, Eosmon is the only same-name evolution line that doesn't possess a stage with a label-less URL, making her the exception, not the norm.
 * There are also indications, which I've repetitively mentioned. The magazine literally labels the second form as "Negamon" too, with no room for interpretation, seeing as the descriptive blurb for "Negamon" explicitly describes its distinctively large mouth and teeth. Also, the teaser implies that the third form occurs relatively early in the episode (early enough to be included at the 10-second mark of the 30-second teaser). Granted that's not a confirmation, but again, it wouldn't make sense to make two-thirds of the teaser the ending climax of the episode. You don't need to be a genius to discern that.--YongYoKyo (talk) 23:37, 12 September 2021 (CDT)
 * Other things can be discerned from the teaser, aside from the relative timeframe. The episode descriptions describe how Kuzurumon enters the human world, but from what I can tell, the second form stayed inside the black ball the whole time, up until the black ball itself "evolves" into the third form (likewise, the black ball is still in the white void at the time of evolution, not the human world). However, we do see the third form seemingly "digging" into the barrier of the white void; before switching the scene to the human world where civilians are just standing around confused, not quite attacked by an interdimensional monster yet.--YongYoKyo (talk) 00:20, 13 September 2021 (CDT)
 * You keeping saying double-standards, I don't think it means what you think it does. Also by surprise forms, I meant that Satan Mode doesn't evolve further which it doesn't.


 * And again, the magazine and was likely referring to Negamon as a character, not as a species and what's more trailers like to take shots out of context and order so I would not be so quick to assume the timeline of the episode based on the trailer because for all you know the whale might very well be Abaddomon.


 * You're not going convince anyone that the whale is Negamon because that's likely to be disproven once and for all five days from now. Chimera-gui (talk) 00:42, 13 September 2021 (CDT)
 * The basis of your counterpoint is built around the assumption that the only official confirmation currently-available is misleading and technically incorrect.
 * And even assuming they're out of order, it's undeniable that the evolution of the third form occurs in the white void, and that the third form later digs through the void's barrier. Assuming the third form is Abaddomon; that would mean that the second form leaves the black ball, enters and causes some chaos in the human world, then returns to the white void to re-enter the black ball, before evolving to the third form and returning back to the human world. That is an incredibly awkward chain of events to occur within a single episode.


 * Anyways, yes, there is evidently no point in continuing the discussion. Everything will be proven next week.--YongYoKyo (talk) 01:16, 13 September 2021 (CDT)


 * and now we have explicit confirmation the tentacle monster is abaddomon. source negamon and abadomon also appear to be separate characters entirely from what i can tell, and negamon was hiding inside abadomon this entire time? Muur (talk) 19:29, 18 September 2021 (CDT)


 * Yes, I admit I was wrong, but my reasoning based on the teaser and episode description wasn't wrong. The second evolution does happen relatively early in the episode, as implied by the teaser. As for the description, the episode description seems to be describing Abaddomon, despite calling it "Kuzurumon" throughout the whole description for some reason. The Digidestined only witnesses the second evolution before their eyes, not the first. The human world didn't suffer any actual damage until the second evolution. They bulldozed over the actual Kuzurumon, while they had a hard time against Abaddomon. All of those actions were erroneously attributed under the name "Kuzurumon", despite being Abaddomon's actions.--YongYoKyo (talk) 19:43, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * TV guide is always wrong it seems. also, im quite certain negamon/kuzurumon and abadomon are separate characters with negamon hiding inside abadomon this whole time. then they killed negamon and abadomon came to life and ate their faces.Muur (talk) 19:54, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * This leads me to question the validity of the name "Kuzurumon" in the first place, considering the TV guide itself is the only source of the name. With how detailed the episode description was describing Abaddomon's actions (under the name of "Kuzurumon"), it doesn't seem like they would use the wrong name throughout the entire thing. "Kuzurumon" could be a prototype/placeholder name for Abaddomon, just like what they did for "SuperRaremon" and RareRaremon.
 * Though this theory requires the pre-requisite that they finalized/changed the name in the gap between writing the respective descriptions for the 66th and 67th episodes (and didn't bother updating the former). Hopefully, the second form will be in the upcoming DRB update.--YongYoKyo (talk) 20:59, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * kenji mentions on twitter that he "thinks" kuzurumon is the digimon that was inside abaddomon on twitter but this may indeed become an unusual situation. either way I dont think theyre the same entity, and negamon was hiding inside abaddomon the entire time. that honestly indicates he may not even have any idea what this whale form is meant to be, but we do have "kuzurumon", and both the whale and orb in the vpet and we cant just say the whale is negamon.Muur (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * Hopefully the coming update mentioned on Twitter will straighten this whole mess out. Chimera-gui (talk) 21:46, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * Ophanimon calls Abaddomon "Negamon's evolution", so they evidently don't consider it a separate entity.--YongYoKyo (talk) 22:17, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * ophanimon would be metagaming by knowing kuzurumon's name.Muur (talk) 22:59, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * I was talking about Abaddomon in relation to the prior two forms, in response to you considering the two as separate.--YongYoKyo (talk) 23:09, 18 September 2021 (CDT)
 * oh well, it appears something along the lines of kuzurumon fusing with the orb (negative data?) to become abaddomon. profiles say that negamon lives in negative data and abaddomon was the result of a digiomn fusing with negative data.Muur (talk) 23:25, 18 September 2021 (CDT)