Talk:Kuremi Kyoko

Accented names for article pages
Okay, so can I please get one of the admin to talk about this? We're just gonna start using accented characters for characters from now on? I've talked about this on Kamishiro Yūko, but only G-SANtos responded, and I am not able to find anything about this at all. I'd just like an admin to give a solid ruling on this is all. Thanks. --Jun (talk) 12:59, 23 October 2014 (CDT)
 * I honestly don't see what's the point of discussing this. If it's the correct romanization method, than it's the correct romanization method. Wikis are supposed to be accurate, after all. 11:35, 24 October 2014 (CDT)
 * If we do not discuss the proper ruling on this there's going to be a huge repercussion throughout the site where people with different opinions will continuously change the pages to the format they themselves see fit. I do not want that to happen. If indeed the admins support this, then I do not mind, but if this is simply your personal opinion yet it will affect the rest of the wiki, then I think that will end up being disastrous. The point is I'm just trying to figure out the admins' stand on this. I already know yours. --Jun (talk) 15:42, 24 October 2014 (CDT)
 * We generally do not use the accented names for characters for a few reasons, one being that minus a few exceptions, official romanizations tend to keep with full spelling (an example being Takenouchi and Koushirou being the officially used spelling rather than Takenōchi and Kōshirō). Not to mention that the accented characters do not differentiate between certain phonetics, such as "oo" and "ou", mashing them both as ō despite the fact that they actually are pronounced differently. Additionally, I think having an etymology tab on the Character template would be very useful, showing alternate spellings and whatnot. (If only I did not break every tabber I try and make...)--devkyu (talk) 00:41, 25 October 2014 (CDT)
 * Thank you for your input, devkyu. So is it safe to assume that we should move this page (Kuremi Kyouko) and Kamishiro Yuuko back to pages without accented characters? --Jun (talk) 02:40, 25 October 2014 (CDT)
 * When is the spelling "Koushirou" used officially? Because I have never seen it other than in a dub-based Nicktoons page. The only spellings used are Kōshirō (in Kōshirō's room in Adventure, multiple times), Kohshiroh (second ending, and e-mail in 02 39), Koshiro (Digimon Adventure: Official Encyclopedia II and Partner Buttons Set, which also use "Kido Joe"), and Kosiro (e-mails in Our War Game!). If you want I can provide screenshot of every of these spellings if you want, but I have never seen "Koushirou" being used by the Japanese media. Same with Jou Kido. His name has always been romanized as either Jo (Digimon Adventure: Official Encyclopedia II) or Joe (Partner Buttons Set), never Jou or Jō.
 * Also, "Takenouchi" is not an example, because the "o" and "u" are in different kanji, therefore in different syllabes. Per Hepburn romanization, you only use macrons when it's a long vowel, not when it's a vowel followed by an identical vowel. For a simpler explanation, it's a long vowel when the vowels are in the same kanji. So, you use macron for 王 (ō), but not for 追う (ou). Same with お婆さん (obā-san) and 真新しい (maatarashii).
 * I have been studying Japanese, and intend on becoming fluent. I may not have memorized many words yet, but I know Hepburn romanization. I'm also an admin in Digimon Wikia, and part of my job is finding all official romanizations for names, and as far as the sources I have access to go, I never saw "Koushirou" being used. 09:04, 25 October 2014 (CDT)
 * If the spelling of a name is written explicitly (and/or frequently), like the ones listed above (e.g. Koshiro), then we should use those official spellings. The main underlying problem is to do with consistency, because right now we are using a mixture of both Wāpuro and (Revised) Hepburn romanizations, or a combination of both in a single word when we should be really using one or the other and come to some form of consensus on it. If we were sticking to using just Hepburn, then something like this could help resolve the oo/ou issue: e.g. 炎, 金曜日 . --Ainz ( talk 18:43, 13 November 2014 (CST)

Thanks devkyu and Ainz for responding to this topic. However, we have yet to come to a consensus. And in the meantime, G-SANtos is usurping the character name choices by adding Hepburn to basically all character names on Cyber Sleuth as he can possible. I am leaning towards not using Hepburn for the character names, only using them within the Romanization/Pronunciation sections within those pages. But ultimately, the decision should be made by one of the admins. So is it possible for the admins to discuss this issue among themselves in order to reach a consensus? Thank you very much. --Jun (talk) 16:19, 20 November 2014 (CST)
 * dunno about inarticle usage, but as far as pagetitles I would advise against exotic characters unless officially used, as they make it more difficult to find the page.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 12:19, 21 November 2014 (CST)
 * Yes Kryten, I definitely agree with you on this one. That was actually one of my concerns for using accented characters for page titles too. Since you'd have to create redirects and stuffs because of those accented characters, and I'm pretty sure we're against having unnecessary redirects when possible (I saw us mass deleting a bunch of redirects recently). --Jun (talk) 01:56, 25 November 2014 (CST)
 * Yes, I asked those redirects to be deleted. But that was because those redirects were pointless. There's no point to having redirects for templates, and it seemed like the admin who moved the pages didn't know there an option to not leave a redirect, so when a page was moved more than once, you had double redirects (that is, a redirect that leads to another redirect).
 * Hepbrun romanization is regarded as the best method to render Japanese pronunciation for Western speakers, and is the most widely used one. In my opinion, we should do what Wikipedia does: Use Hepburn when there's no official romanization, and move the page when a differing official romanization is given. This is a much more professional and linguistically correct way, and if the problem is finding the page, the search functions also recognizes redirects.  10:59, 25 November 2014 (CST)
 * Just to clarify, I think there should still be redirects, and all actual page text across the wiki should use whatever romanization you guys decide is most proper, I just think that having accents in the article title itself makes it slightly harder to find the page as a new reader.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 17:22, 25 November 2014 (CST)
 * I really would rather not have anything other than alphanumeric or other common characters such as dashes for actual page titles. Kryten has a point in that it makes searches for pages inconvenient.--devkyu (talk) 02:08, 26 November 2014 (CST)
 * Can you explain how it makes the searches inconvenient? Because Wikimon's search function recognizes redirects, so I don't really see what's the problem. Plus, we had Fūjinmon for a long time, so I again don't see the problem. 07:42, 26 November 2014 (CST)

So...can we have a consensus on this yet? I wouldn't want this to become an edit/move war between me and G-SANtos. It seems Kryten and devkyu agrees with me on this, while Ainz's stance is more ambiguous... --Jun (talk) 02:11, 21 December 2014 (CST)
 * For page searches, I'm not talking about page searches within the wiki software, I mean more stuff like seeing a page once or hearing about it, then trying to search it on google. Exotic pagetitle characters make that more difficult. The accented characters can definitely be used throughout the actual text, but for pure ease-of-index, simple characters are preferable for the title, I feel.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 13:43, 23 January 2015 (CST)
 * So I've let this discussion sit for 2 years (wow how time passes), and since 2 admin + Kryten agrees with me on this, can I get confirmation that I can move this page along with all the other Cyber Sleuth character pages to non-accented page titles? Thanks. Jun (talk) 16:43, 7 April 2017 (CDT)