Talk:Dark Area
From Wikimon
Source for demon's castle?KrytenKoro06 (talk) 09:37, 9 September 2013 (CDT)
- Also, I've done a comprehensive search for all mentions of the Dark Area in the Digimon profiles, though there's probably other oblique references to it along the lines of "eternal darkness". Anyway. You guys are free to borrow the write-up for the Dark Area at Digimon Wiki, and I'd appreciate any help you can give looking for references in the various fictions.KrytenKoro06 (talk) 20:36, 11 September 2013 (CDT)
Sources[edit]
Regarding the latest edits, why deleting so much information for being "unsourced" when everything has a source attached? --Shadow Shinji (talk) 03:28, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- Because some of the sources provided were bullshit, like the one I specifically mentioned in my comment. If someone wants to re-edit the legitimate stuff back in, they're welcome to, but I didn't have time to go through all of it to weed things out. I should be in bed right now instead of dealing with wiki crap. But I'll tell everyone involved right now that I'm not going to tolerate fanwank, like tying all the events of the various series into a single timeline, as has been attempted in other pages. --TMS (talk) 04:30, 13 December 2022 (EST)
- From everything I wrote, the only thing that could be considered "non null canon" would be the Haguro, as it was only shown in a manga, but literally everything else had a source that linked that information to the null canon. deleting 100% of the information added without even taking the time to analyze whether it is valid or not, sounds like the complete opposite of what an admin of this page should do. You say that "the sources provided were bullshit", while most of the sources came from the profiles themselves and products recognized by bandai as part of the same canon (null canon, as you like to call it), there was no attempt to tie events from other media.
- My main sources where: Digimon Encyclopedia, Digimon Profile, Digimon Chronicle X (These three sources come from the "About" page in Digimon.Net) and the L&R Wars (which where referenced to by Bandai in the "Main Forces and Organizations of the Digital World" that was displayed in the Digimon Museum). If that is not "null canon" by your standars, then I don't know what is.--Convergencia Digital (talk) 04:32, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- chronicle is a manga, l and r wars is vpet stuff. Those don't apply franchise wide. That info should be under relevant sections. Chronicle isn't null canon, otherwise lilithmon x DRB profile would say she fought examon.Muur (talk) 04:36, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- Both Chronicle and LR wars are vpet stuff, and bandai consideres vpets stuff as part of their main canon (null canon). The DRB, the Digimon Profiles, Folder Continent Report, Digimon Chronicle X (all stuff found in the About section of Digimon.net, a place full of "null canon" information about the franchice, so only considering some of them and some of them not look like cherry picking to me) and "vpet stuff" like Digimon Chronicle and LR Wars are all settings developed by WiZ (now PLEX) to serve as the main canon of the franchice (also refered to by Habu as "the world portrayed in LCD toys") from wich Bandai can later expand on. The Digital Monster Artbook Ver.1~20th, Digital Monster Artbook Ver.Pendulum and Digital Monster art book ver.X are all full of "null canon" information, and two of these books talk extensibly about settings from the world of the LCD toys, more specifically, Digimon Chronicle and Digimon Chronicle X, with one of these books containing the Novel of X.
- Also, saying that Digimon Chronicle X isn't null canon because lilithmon'x profile doesn't talk about its fight with Examon is just straight up wrong. There's no need for the profiles to expand on information that is already available on ohter palces. This is the same reason as to why no profile explains what the digital world is, what the x-antibody is, or in a more specific example, this is the reason why victorygreymon and z'dgarurumon's profiles don't explain how they where born, because when those profiles where mande, the explination was already in the old digimon website under de LR Wars section.
- The display of the "Main Forces and Organizations of the Digital World" shows the relations between the groups of digimon from the "null canon", and it mentions the Tempest Program that the 7 great demon lords used against the four holy beasts in the LR wars, same event in which victorygreymon and z'dgarurumon where born thanks to their digieggs being modified (something that is also mentioned in their profiles).
- Not to mention that Digimon Chronicle and LR Wars where once part of the old digimon website and were listed alongside other "null canon" information without any distinction, and now, the Profile reports from agumon hakase talk about information once found in these pages, like the x-antibody one that talks about the project ark and the new and old digital worlds.
- We also know some of the staff that have worked on these projects. Moriyama Soh, one of the main eployes from Wiz worked on the Digimon Chronicle X project and the original Digimon Chronicle as well, and Usagi Bochi was responsible for writing more then 100 profiles, helped with the "null canon" information used on the Digital Monster Ver.1~20th artbook and was the one who wrote the Novel of X for Digimon Chronicle X.
- Here are the sources by the way, might as well check them out before dismissing them again:
- https://withthewill.net/threads/translated-interview-kenji-watanabe-interviewed-by-producer-habu.18323/
- https://digimon.net/profile/report027/
- https://twitter.com/Wikimon_net/status/1555728470289928197/photo/1
- https://web.archive.org/web/20110519041904/http://digimon.net/digimon_archive2010/cat-digimon-world/index.html
- http://web.archive.org/web/20090225102409/http://www.digimon.channel.or.jp/city/gallery/pendulum-x/main.html
- https://game-creators.camp/@totsuka92aki
- https://twitter.com/usagibochi/status/907268607070973952
- I know that you guys mean good and only want the best for the wiki, and I also want to help as much as possible updating information whenever I can, but sometimes it really seems like some people here just want the wiki to stay the same forever. I took many hours writing the updated information from some of these pages only for them to be completely erased without anyone even reading the source material that was cited, and that really affects my motivation to want to help again. If this information I just gave you is still not enough to make you reconsider what you think is considered "null canon" or not, then I don't know what will...--Convergencia Digital (talk) 05:36, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- the wikis do not consider chronicle to be part of the drb lore. otherwise, it would mean kota and yuji exist in all universes and that obviously isnt the case. it is simply one piece of media telling a story based on the drb just like cyber sleuth or survive etc. the drb for example says who the 13 royal knights are - that way you wont haev a game go nah shinegreymon is a royal knight in our universe. the main forces of the digital world does mention the tempest program - but it doesnt say mention anything else so rather than the l and r from the vpets being canon to all universes - rather - its canon that the demon lords will fire out that program and then other universes will do whatever they can to deal with it like with the x program. so tempest stuff is fine to include, but it does not talk about the l/r war. just the tempest program. so it exists in lore just like the x antibody. but thats just background information like who the royal knights are. the digimon twin using it as its story is no different to cyber slueth using the royal knights. so i dont kind mentioning tempest in the sgdl page, but it should not include information from digimon twin because digimon twin is its own timeline that is using the tempest storyline. another piece of media could use the tempest storyline and have it result differently. the pages on this, and the dub wiki, are ran with background information as the main thing. things like chronicle are just using the background information to tell a story. it is not background info, it is a story told using background info. just like everything else. the malovenlent fist is another one i saw you edit- it exists in the drb and it debuted in next order. but the malovent fist of next order and the drb are different characters. future media may use it differently than next order did. heck survive didnt even use it in teh first place and pretended it wasnt a thing. so we cant say that all boltboutamons are formed via the malovent fist on a dark area page or whatever because tht does not apply to survive.Muur (talk) 06:31, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- I'm not in favour of fanwank, as you call it, but erasing everything just because there are a few pieces of information out of place is also vandalism, and it goes against the spirit of a wikia. Eg. If there's something that only applies to Digimon Next instead of the main canon, then put it into the Next section instead of erasing tons of information, which by the way and as the guy mentioned, it should have taken hours of work to gather everything up. If anyone does not know how to properly rearrange everything or delate what is considered fan theories with no actual base, please ask for help.--Shadow Shinji (talk) 07:08, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- Also Muur you are clueless about what this guys claims as canon. The DRB is the main source, but certainly everything that comes from Bandai/Plex (former TCG background, V-Pets background, DRB index, etc). has been proven, at least, to come from the same source. "it would mean kota and yuji exist in all universes and that obviously isnt the case." Sure, because Huanglongmon's as the Fifth Holy Beast exists in all universes...right? --Shadow Shinji (talk) 07:24, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- potentially. And that was my point. The guys writing the DRB made their own story (chronical) but that doesn't mean it applies to the null canon. It is a story using the background settings. The idea of null canon is it applies to everything (e.g., who the 13 RKs are). Every universe could use the holy beasts at some point (or like adventure Tri pulling Yggdrasil) but Kota and yuji only exist in chronicle. Every universe doesn't use all lore every time that'd be impossible. But the next adventure product could use the seven great demon lords or the Olympos from the null canon. They're not gonna use Kota and yuji. And as that's how we use null canon we can't claim that the l and r war applies to all universes. If it does happen in a universe it could and prob will happen differently. It's down to those medias to use it if they want. That's how we have the x antibody page set up. It talks about the lore of x antibody then has sections for each media it appears in. The lore of x antibody is null canon. However it's just background info. In Chronicle the Demon lords and royal knights fight. Who's to say that happens in the next game using the x antibody? Null canon is background info that applies to all universes and they'll use that info if they use that lore (e.g if the next story game has an x story it'll have Yggy killing 98% of all Digimon then make up its own story from there. Just like x evo, chronicle, and d-cyber). They all use the same background info of Yggy killing 98% (null canon) then make up their own stories (not null)Muur (talk) 07:40, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- Anyways, I have just fixed up everything. I have left the information that is considered canon to the null canon in the introductory part, and also placed that information that only applies to a specific product into the proper section. Feel free to make any corrections if I have missed anything. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 07:48, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- It really seems like the information was just mass deleted without giving it a second thought. Yesterday I asked TMS if it was ok to write a section talking about El Evangelio in this page, he agreed, and today it was him who mass deleted everything, including the section that he himself had approved... If you guys want your wiki to stay as if it was written in 2015 then there's nothing else for me to do here. Thanks for your work Shadow Shinji.--Convergencia Digital (talk) 07:54, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- Anyways, I have just fixed up everything. I have left the information that is considered canon to the null canon in the introductory part, and also placed that information that only applies to a specific product into the proper section. Feel free to make any corrections if I have missed anything. --Shadow Shinji (talk) 07:48, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- potentially. And that was my point. The guys writing the DRB made their own story (chronical) but that doesn't mean it applies to the null canon. It is a story using the background settings. The idea of null canon is it applies to everything (e.g., who the 13 RKs are). Every universe could use the holy beasts at some point (or like adventure Tri pulling Yggdrasil) but Kota and yuji only exist in chronicle. Every universe doesn't use all lore every time that'd be impossible. But the next adventure product could use the seven great demon lords or the Olympos from the null canon. They're not gonna use Kota and yuji. And as that's how we use null canon we can't claim that the l and r war applies to all universes. If it does happen in a universe it could and prob will happen differently. It's down to those medias to use it if they want. That's how we have the x antibody page set up. It talks about the lore of x antibody then has sections for each media it appears in. The lore of x antibody is null canon. However it's just background info. In Chronicle the Demon lords and royal knights fight. Who's to say that happens in the next game using the x antibody? Null canon is background info that applies to all universes and they'll use that info if they use that lore (e.g if the next story game has an x story it'll have Yggy killing 98% of all Digimon then make up its own story from there. Just like x evo, chronicle, and d-cyber). They all use the same background info of Yggy killing 98% (null canon) then make up their own stories (not null)Muur (talk) 07:40, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- the wikis do not consider chronicle to be part of the drb lore. otherwise, it would mean kota and yuji exist in all universes and that obviously isnt the case. it is simply one piece of media telling a story based on the drb just like cyber sleuth or survive etc. the drb for example says who the 13 royal knights are - that way you wont haev a game go nah shinegreymon is a royal knight in our universe. the main forces of the digital world does mention the tempest program - but it doesnt say mention anything else so rather than the l and r from the vpets being canon to all universes - rather - its canon that the demon lords will fire out that program and then other universes will do whatever they can to deal with it like with the x program. so tempest stuff is fine to include, but it does not talk about the l/r war. just the tempest program. so it exists in lore just like the x antibody. but thats just background information like who the royal knights are. the digimon twin using it as its story is no different to cyber slueth using the royal knights. so i dont kind mentioning tempest in the sgdl page, but it should not include information from digimon twin because digimon twin is its own timeline that is using the tempest storyline. another piece of media could use the tempest storyline and have it result differently. the pages on this, and the dub wiki, are ran with background information as the main thing. things like chronicle are just using the background information to tell a story. it is not background info, it is a story told using background info. just like everything else. the malovenlent fist is another one i saw you edit- it exists in the drb and it debuted in next order. but the malovent fist of next order and the drb are different characters. future media may use it differently than next order did. heck survive didnt even use it in teh first place and pretended it wasnt a thing. so we cant say that all boltboutamons are formed via the malovent fist on a dark area page or whatever because tht does not apply to survive.Muur (talk) 06:31, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- chronicle is a manga, l and r wars is vpet stuff. Those don't apply franchise wide. That info should be under relevant sections. Chronicle isn't null canon, otherwise lilithmon x DRB profile would say she fought examon.Muur (talk) 04:36, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- from what I understand the idea was to revert then have people re-add the acceptable stuff as it was easier that way. So add back what is acceptable and put things where they should be etc. You can still see the writing under history.Muur (talk) 08:19, 13 December 2022 (CST)
- Now that I'm awake again... Muur is correct. I did a mass delete because it was 4 AM and I didn't want to take another hour before bed to go through everything and figure out what was legitimate and what wasn't. Thank you, Shinji, for re-editing the page to conform with standards. --TMS (talk) 13:53, 13 December 2022 (EST)
